Violent Crime and Security

[NunoEFSilva]

Sometimes I think if my point of view would be too lopsided (security wise) for you guys. I got two main differences from North Americans (the vast majority here I would guess):

1) Although historically in sync with Anglo-Saxon culture (Portugal-U.K. relationship) we are not Anglo-Saxons - that's the cultural difference: I do speak (native) Portuguese and understand Spanish (very well).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Portuguese_Alliance
"The Anglo-Portuguese Alliance between England (succeeded by the United Kingdom) and Portugal is the oldest alliance in the world which is still in force. It was signed in 1373."

2) Portugal has very little violent crime (albeit we did have plenty of wars; from the Muslim moors to several colonial conflicts): So I tend to be like a rabbit in dingo country (from your POV) when I travel to SAm.

http://wikitravel.org/en/Portugal
"Portugal is a safe country. (...) generally speaking, you are safer in Portugal than in most other western countries. (...), there are no internal conflicts to speak of, and no terrorism-related danger."

One thing I have difficulty in understanding is the attitude towards security on the board. Granted security is a big issue in all of SAm - no arguments from me (especially from rabbit me!) Everybody talks about it in here.

In other threads people comment on the lack of reliability usually found in Latin America. The violent gangs. The corrupt police.

All rightly so.

But I still think that for one to defend oneself one has to understand what is going on first - and I don't see people discussing the roots of the issue:

a) Why is there violence?
and (more to the point)
b) What can one do about it?

=//=

Let's try objectivity here.

I'm starting this by using as sample a city I know: Natal, in the Northeastern Brazil - an urban area on the scale of a million strong (just an example, mind you) - who knows, maybe there is a point to this...

http://www.natal-brazil.com/natal/
"Population: 712317, of which
334355 are male and
377962 are female"...

http://www.natal-brazil.com/basics/history.html
"In recent decades, tourism became the major industry in Natal. The sun shines all year, the heat is relieved by the alyssum winds, temperature ranges between 20 and 33 C. The urbanization being recent allowed for planning of streets and traffic flow (rare indeed in Brazil); the city didn't grow too fast, as it happened in the bigger cities of the south or even regional metropolis like Recife, and Natal managed to keep the tranquil atmosphere along with the comfort of a modern city."

http://www.natal-brazil.com/natal/

"Natal has always been an island of tranquility in Brazil; the sunny beaches always attracted tourists from all around the country. (...) Years of good management and the perception that tourism was its greatest potential have drastically changed Natal: there are many more hotels, restaurants and every kind of tourism related business; transportation and communication systems are much better; more and more Natalenses know how important the tourists are for the economy, and this reflects on the way (which was already warm) that they treat visitants."

http://www.natal-brazil.com/news/saf...ty-brazil.html
"Natal is the safest city among Brazilian State capitals" (with the Stats and the criteria to prove it...)

Now!

In this Brazilian 'island of tranquility'...

Can anyone venture a guess on how many policemen there are in Natal???

Not at any moment patroling the streets - a rough full total?

Give you a hint; population: 712317 (just in town, not the all urban area)...

C'mon, don't be shy!

[Cap'n Jib]

NunoEFSilva,

I’ll confine this post to Colombia and its’ future. Let’s consider the much lauded plan of having the para-militaries (and specifically AUC) turn in their weapons, admit to ‘crimes’ and promise not to behave badly again. Over 30,000 paras have actually done so. Now what?

If we were to write a resume for the now unemployed para, we would have to list as strengths: knowledge of intimidation, willing to accept money for work others might find offensive, willing to transfer allegiance to any group with a better offer, experienced at handling weapons and explosives, does not accept a ‘yes…or a no…or any answer for that matter’ when negotiating and finally is devout (usually prays for his own safety prior to committing a violent act).

The unemployment in Colombia, ranges from 10% to 32% depending on who is supplying the numbers and what the agenda is. The intelligence reporting service Stratford has reported that membership is criminal gangs as increased oh…around 30,000 or so. Why am I not surprised?

[LastLion]

OK NUNO, tell us how many COPS ?? I would say a whole lot of them!!! Just my gringo ass guessing..

Cap'n, I will bet you that as money and the guerillas decrease in COlombia, so will the increase of gangs and city violence, only problem between their gangs and ours , is that theres are trained by the guerillas who are at war and train to KILL, not jst sell dime bags on the corner..... I really doubt that our gang problem in the USA is decreasing!!!!!!!!!!

[NunoEFSilva]

And the 64,000 Dollar answer is: "In Natal, the Police number is 190"!!!

And that's for a 700,000 city, not to mention an urban area of more than a million.

Reference:
http://www.natal-brazil.com/blog/
http://www.natal-brazil.com/blog/200...s-city-in.html

BTW, from that post/article you can see that the Natal Police's attitude is totally different from their Rio or São Paulo colleagues. Indeed I know them to be really nice with gringos, as there is a frenetic competition amongst Northeastern cities for tourist's monies, and Natal's City Hall gets that.

I've wrote before about all Civil Servants don't getting wage cost-of-living updates for the past 20 years - the only rises have been prompted by adjustments in the Minimum Wage (now at about 350 Reais) which is the salary of practically all of them.

Meanwhile most 'smart' Brazilian Policemen continue to do jobs 'on the side' (absolutely necessary if they are to feed their families) such as collecting bad debts (very forcibly), private 'security' gigs, etc. All functions the Governments (Federal or State) don't care to truly regulate.

And as Cap'n Jib so ironically put it, these sub-employed men have a range of skills that lend themselves only to a 'soldiers of fortune' kind of employment market. If they start falling by the wayside, and in the absence of guerrillas, their alternatives are: the drug gangs (big and small), gun-running, 'eraser' contracts and the like! (Brazil's employment numbers are very similar to those in Colombia.)

LastLion, meta-gangs in Brazil (as the PCC in São Paulo, etc.), more than used-to-kill paramilitaries (sections of which they do have) are so sophisticated that they function as Big Business Corporations, with several expert operational divisions. The present puny Police force doesn't have a chance against them. Because of that, and contrary to good-old-mafia outfits, they don't feel any pressure to 'go legit' and shun violence (bad for business, but only up to a point).

In most of Brazil the Police (Polícia Federal) are outnumbered, outgunned and grossly underpaid - and collectively, as much a victim as anyone else - that situation includes forensic and criminologist experts.

This is an interview with the National Association of Federal Criminal Experts:
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/t...22006050.shtml

In this he says (in Portuguese, sorry) that the "Brazilian Criminal Experts total is around 513, which means 5.5% of the Federal Police". Picking up a calculator one can deduce that there are less than 30,000 people (from cops to commissars) in the employ of the Federal Police.

To cover all of Brazil!!!

At 180 millions, that comes to 1 policeman per 6,000 'civilians'...

This has GOT to give every would-be-criminal punk an feeling (and near-assurance) of impunity!

This is a Brazilian Political issue!

Out of our control, you say? Maybe not...

It is the money pressure from gringos going into (and buying flats and houses) the Northeast that is forcing the Politician's greedy hands to yield reform - increasing their tax base, and forcing them to listen.

If one checks the "Departamento de Polícia Federal" (Federal Police Department), http://www.dpf.gov.br/ one will notice the intense display of press histories about the Police - they get it (at least the upper echelons do get it) and are using it to press the States to increase their budgets - and Portuguese, Italian, American, German, etc. - residents, gringos, expats and entrepreneurs - are on top of them to manage it well!

Nuno

[NunoEFSilva]

Population: 712317
Police....: 190
This is 1 policeman per 3750 city dwellers - much more secure, or so it seems...