EzD Does Bogota 12/25/01 - 12/31/01

Hello. This is my first time posting. I have been lurking around the boards for some time now and I want to thank everybody for sharing their information. It has really helped me gain an understanding for the big picture of Colombia.

I was in Bogota from 12/25-12/31. I did not necessarily go there looking for a special someone. I went there to visit friends from college (Colombians who studied in the USA) that I haven't seen since 1989 and to investigate business opportunities there. Before I went to Colombia, though, I was able to make some penpal friends with several women from Bogota. I was careful to not promise them anything about my arrival and that I just wanted to be friends, etc. They were OK with that. This was my way of getting my feet wet with the culture, the women, and the environment. I'm not too concerned with jumping in head first, I just wanted to get my feet wet. Therefore, in effect, this posting is about my observations about the country, the people, and some of the women I became friends with. If you're curious how I found my penpal friends, it was through a picture/bio of myself on www.cabellorosamericanos.com (sp?). I get regular traffic from that site. Nice site!

***Please note that everything I am saying here has to do with Bogota***

1) Spanish language...you need to know spanish to really be successful down there. This is coming from the perspective of my wanting to maybe move down there and do business. If you are only looking for a wife, maybe you can get away with not knowing much spanish. But it really helps to have a basic understanding of the language. I do, and it helped. I learned in college and in my business dealings in Mexico and Costa Rica. Colombians really appreciate your willingness to speak there language and are very helpful. I did have problems with understanding some of their spanish accents. Depending on the region they are from, they speak differently. Much like in the USA (southerners, etc.). Generally, nobody there speaks any english of substance. I met many people there and my impression was that the more money the person had, the better your chances were of them knowing english.

2) The country...INCREDIBLE!!! I had an opportunity to travel to ALL parts of Bogota during my stay. I had low expectations of the country because of the type of news/movies we see here in the USA. Also, I can compare Bogota to cities in Mexico and Costa Rica because I have been to all parts of both of those countries. After seeing Bogota and surrounding cities I can say that Bogota ranks #1 amount Mexican/Costa Rican cities. Mexico compared to COlombia is HELL on earth! Dirty and unorganized. Costa Rica was actually nice, but Colombia a LOT nicer! The city is well organized, clean, and the people seem to have a lot of respect in their environment. Yes, I did see some ghetto areas of Bogota, but they were NOTHING like what you see in MOST of Mexico! The city is very beautiful and the local government seems to go out of their way to keep things in order. Well, I'm just going to say it...I don't think I'm out of bounds here...Bogota seemed to be to be just as good as any large metropolitan area in the USA. This is in terms of orderliness, cleanliness, etc. I've traveled to MANY cities here in the USA and if you were put in Bogota without knowing you were there (apart from all of the spanish signs) you'd be hard pressed to think that you weren't in an American or European city. There were many things to see in and around Bogota. I spent much of my time with my friends and one of the women I met as a penpal (more later). We visited all of the sights in the city. And they are REALLY worth seeing!!! A lot of history and culture. My hosts took great pride in showing me their environment. They should be! This was in stark contrast to Mexico! You can't even compare Mexico City to Bogota in many aspects! The sites that I saw were very well maintained and clean and showed the country had a lot of pride in what they had to show to the world...Montserrat, Museo del Oro, Quinta de Bolivar, Molaka Science Museum, etc...

3) Getting around...coming from the perspective of wanting to live down there, I can't understand why anybody would want a car. Taxis are CHEAP! If you lived there you'd be hard pressed to spend more than US$10 per day on transportation around the city (back and forth to work, bars, etc.). Obviously this depends on where you live, but I'm assuming you live in the city and you work downtown and you want to go to the bars in the Zona Rosa. Busses are even cheaper! I took a bus from Bogota to Catedral de Sal with my women penpal friend. This is a bus ride of about 1 hour north of Bogota. Only US$1 each way!!!!! The most I spent on transportation was US$10 from my friends apartment (in Cedro Golf Club neighborhood) to the airport (about 20 minutes). He picked me up from the airport when I arrived, though. I was with trusted friends, so they told me how far out of the city I was able to go without concern for safety. So, given the fact that you really can't drive "cross country" in Colombia (remember the civil war) I think a car would be more of a nuisance than anything else. And at US$10 per day for transportation, that's a lot less than what it costs to own a car (payments, insurance, etc.).

4) Attitude...what I've come to understand from these forums is that Colombians do not want to leave their country if they have 1/2 a chance of making it there. This is true. They love their country. They are VERY family oriented and are hard-pressed to leave it all behind. The ones that do want to leave are the ones that don't have much to look forward to there. Not that they're down on their luck, but that their future doesn't look too bright. Not much to work for. Because of the civil war, I had been told my MANY people that their one concern in their life is uncertainty. From day to day they don't know what can happen. So this really takes away from a desire to plan for the future and want to become very successful. They know that it can all disappear in an instant. Or, so that is the impression I got. But with even that, they want to stay. I don't blame them. I can see why they get attached to a place like Colombia. My penpal friends has applied for a job in Mexico that she may get. Now, she wants to leave because of the uncertainty reason I gave above. Not because she is down on her luck. She is college educated and is a manager at her company. With that in mind, there are limited opportunities for her to move up in and Mexico is actually seen as a place with more opportunity. My other friends (from college) are actually from families that have some status there. So for them, opportunities abound because they are well connected. That is the exception, though. It's like being a big fish in a little pond. The other people I met were very friendly and approachable. Now, I wasn't talking to every person on the street. That can be dangerous. But when I talked to people in the malls, at clubs, etc...they took a real interest in knowing about you. I know this has a lot to do with them knowing I'm a foreigner to them. I speak spanish with a heavy American accent, but that may have been enough for them to want to continue getting to know me better. They like foreigners. They know that Americans have a bad impression of their country and are quick to want to change your impression.

5) Prices...things are CHEAP in Bogota. I consumed a lot of food, drinks, etc. there and it was hard for me to spend more than US$50 a day there. And I wasn't skimping on anything. Obviously, when you go to the Zona Rosa (Hard Rock Cafe, etc.) the prices are more like in the USA, but in general, EVERYTHING was cheaper. I ate at some nice restaurants and for 2 people the prices ranged from US$10-$20!!! ANd that is for appetizer, main course, dessert, beer, etc.! Now, I did go to the Luna restaurant in Zona Rosa and I did spend US$45 there for two people. But I bumped into Ms. Colombia 1992 there and my friend recognized her from a TV show there and introduced himself and we talked to her for a while. That was well worth the $45!!! She was fine! Gas prices are in US gallons. Up to US$2 per gallon. CLothing was VERY cheap. Even if you went to the Unicentro or other similar Centro Comerciales (malls) clothing was cheap as hell. Excellent leather dress shoes no more than US$50-$90! The same shoes here are EASILY US$150+. Food in the food courts of the mall were more expensive than at other restaurants, but the food was soooo good!!!

6) Living expenses...My friend lives in an apartment in a neighborhood north of Bogota called Cedro Golf. It is a upper-middle class place with nice houses and apartments, parks, shops, etc. He has a 2 bedroom apartment for US$225 per month! He pays about US$100 per month for servicios (water, gas, electricity, phone). He says for him to live like a king there (money is no object) he spends about US$900 per month (clothing, partying, taxi, etc.). ANd he seems to have a materially sufficient lifestyle there. But he doesn't make as much as he could if here were in the USA. But, then again, everything is relative. If you have money that you can put in a US bank and live off the interest, Colombia on US$2,000 per month is MORE than sufficient to allow you to live in the nicest place, do the funnest things, and enjoy the beautiful country.

7) Safety...Ok, I think I'm going to be a little naive here, but here it goes...I thought Bogota was as safe as any big city in the USA. There are places I wouldn't go to in San Francisco, LA, or NYC...just as you shouldn't in Bogota. I had the luxury of being with veteran Bogotanos and they kept me out of harms way. You do have to becareful. Use common sense. Until you are comfortable with the environment, do not go out alone at night. But then again, I did go out alone at night and had no problem. But this was in the good neighborhoods. They did tell me to not do anything to attract attention to myself, though. Don't wear a lot of jewelry, flashy clothing, etc. Just try to blend in with the local folks. Yes, you can wear a nice suit and expensive watch, but NOT at night in a bad part of town. Get the picture??? You wouldn't do that in South Central LA, either, though! My impression, though, is that if you do not know spanish you may be an easier target with taxi drivers, etc. If they know you are alone AND you don't speak the language, that may be when you can become a greater target. Easier to take advantage of. I didn't actually see/experience this. This is just my impression.

8) Doing business there...My sources for this are good. My one friend is a manager at the cell phone company there and the other is a dentist. Also, I had the opportunity to talk to the father of a friend of my penpal who is a business consultant there. Just my luck! He is semi-retired now, but in the past has consulted American and Colombian companies in Bogota. They sare somewhat well off there. When asked what is the best business to start in Colombia he said TECHNOLOGY! Not just fixing computers or internet cafes, but introducing new technology (software, etc.) that may not be available in Colombia at this time. On another note, he did say you have to be careful about starting a business there. THis attracts attention in Colombia, especially if you invest any sizeable amount of money. Here is the scenario he gave me....A person moves to Bogota to start a business. He puts US$10,000 in the bank to fund his business. THere is a "corrupt" employee at the bank who notices this deposit and notifies his "mafia" friends. Then his mafia friends start keeping an eye on you. Are you a good candidate for a kidnapping/ransom???? Well, that would have to been seen. He said this is actually rare, but it does happen. So you have to be careful about moving money around in Colombia. Another scenario he gave me was that if you import a lot of merchandise into Colombia via air or ships. He told me that the harbors in the north of COlombia have a lot of mafia ties. If they see a large $$$ amount of merchandise coming in, they will want to know who is bringing it in. This may be an impetus to begin monitoring your activities. In any case, you just need to be careful about moving money/merchandise around there. Any large amounts of money transfers are monitored by the banks. There are limitations to the amount of money that can be moved around. This is because they are very careful about not getting stuck laundering drug money. So you have to keep this in mind. Money seems to not move around that quickly down there. Other than that, the gentleman and my friends said that contrary to what my impression is that Colombia does have a lot of opportunities, but not without its headaches. You have to know the system to succeed there. And, obviously, there are some people succeeding there.

9) The women!...OK, this is what you've been waiting for...first, a little background about me. I'm 34, 5'8", above average in looks and physically fit. Given that, my impression was that the women are very approachable and want to get to know you. It helps that we're "foreigners" there. They are curious. That's normal. I didn't have any problems striking up conversations with women at the coffee shops, malls, on my tour trips, etc. Given the fact that this was my first trip and just a fact-finding mission, I wasn't too concerned with hooking up with any women there, other than my penpal. Yes, sparks did fly, but I was honest with her from the get go and told her I'm just here as her friend and can't promise her anything. Even with that, we did have fun . The spanish does help!!!!! The women are always well-dressed for work or for just going to have coffee at the mall. You should oblige and dress neatly, yourself. Don't go too much for flash, though. Without being obvious about it, it does help to flash some money around there. But be careful that nobody is watching you!!! I guess you may just be more suseptible to trouble there than here when you flash money. And it's not that they're money-hungry people, but you and I may have more money than the average person there and money talks. I mean, they are looking to improve their lives, and a person with some money can offer them that. Now, given all of this (money, being a foreigner, etc.) it is true that girls there will give you the time of day whereas that same quality of woman here you would have to work hard for. They didn't seem to have a shell to break down. American girls seem to have baggage and problems that makes it hard to get to know them. I'm not saying Colombian women don't have baggage, they just have it in a different form than American girls. I met sooooo many women from my friends and my penpal. They were all wonderful, respectable women that I wish I had time to get to know better. My impression is that making a friend before you go down is the best way to go!!!

Well, that's all I can think of at this point. If you want to know about another topic I haven't covered, just ask!!! Good luck all!!!

EzD

[HonkyTonk]

Good report Doc. I happen to like Bogota a lot too. I have a feeling you may get hooked on Colombia and yes, things are cheap...relatively speaking. I can only compare to Venezuela (much more expensive than Colombia) and of course American cities from coast to coast. BUT..it happens to be very expensive for the average citizen of Bogota. I have definitley seen more $ in Bogota than let's say Cali but it's still hardly Palm Beach. Even in Bogota, many make minimun wage of aprox. $5-6 per day so the $10 per day taxi you mentioned if unaffordable to most..obviously, as well as the price of the meals that to you and me are cheap but to them...WOW! I can forgive you if you ate at the Hard Rock Cafe while in this very exotic city if you'll forgive me for eating at Friday's near Zona Rosa. Actually, my date wanted to go there more than anywhere else even though I said..please no!

If you'd have seen Bogota 2-3 years ago, there would have been no mistaking it for any American city. It has come a LONG way but still doesn't compare to comparable American cities I have been in. Of course, this is strictly a matter of opinion. Different cars (duh!) narrower haphazzard streets, near total indifference to traffic laws, very friendly people and even better restaurants all are totally different from the major cities I have been in. And then..the beautiful women all over the place who are very approachable as you mentioned...(not to mention the almost total lack of FAT!) this is nowhere to be found in the states. When in South America I KNOW I'm in SA and love every minute of it!!! I can't mistake the atmosphere or appearance for anything here and don't forget the average person on the street. No jeans and T shirts or baggy pants halfway down their asses with the underwear on the outside. Even the poor old men who don't have a pot to piss in look like a million bucks in their perfectly clean but thread bare clothes. I love it even though I'm a jeans and T shirt person..just not there.

I've never been to Mexico so can't compare there but Bogota to me is a unique city like no other I have ever been to. We can surely agree on 99% of what you wrote and that it's a city we both love to spend time in. It doesn't get much better than that

BTW: I did the salt dump thing. A cousin of my date borrowed a car and drove us there and back and places in between but it cost me $50. Would have had a much better time like you did for a buck on a bus. THAT is Colombia!

Excellent post, EzD. Thanks. Very informative insights. I've only had a night's stayover in Bogota, but I knew from that limited experience that I want to go back. Keep us posted, as it sounds as though you will be going back, too.

[Jim]

Great post EzD. I will say your scenario about a bank employee reporting your deposit to the mafia is only one of the problems with the banking system in Colombia.

My wife tells me that frequently direct deposits disappear, saving accounts shrink, mail with checks get stolen, etc. I would say the number one disadvantage of doing business in Colombia would be security of your assets.

Lots of great information.

Thanks,

Jim

EasyDental, Excellent post !
Take care,
Santa