Verbs

Fred,

1. You probably only need to use the "usted" verb conjugation with the girl's parents and aunts/uncles. You definitely don't need to use the "usted" form with taxi drivers.

2. I have written my "personal profiles" at the agencies with the "usted" form. However, I always use the "tu" form in person and in letters with the women.

3. In some other countries (Costa Rica, Argentina) it's borderline insulting to use the "tu" form. In those countries they use "vos" not "tu" but "vos" isn't that common in Colombia.

4. Do NOT use either pronoun - "tu" or "usted" - in most situations. The verb conjugation is sufficient, and the pronoun is not only superfluous but often inappropriate as well. You should only use the pronoun to add emphasis or to draw a distinction.

Did you get all that?

Jeff

Claro. The last time I tried to incorporate Spanish into correspondence, I was complemented by the recipient. Then again, I get the impression I would have been complemented had I used straight Pig Latin. I suppose that, being far from fluent, I shouldn't worry about cultural nuances. After all, I'm a dumb foreigner and baseline expectations will be low; we all know the jokes about "trilingual..., bilingual..., American" and "it wasn't that the dog spoke well, it was that he spoke at all". However, since I have an odd fascination with such things and Parlier, California is usually as far as I get into Latin America, I'm always glad to benefit from knowledge obtained on someone else's frequent flier miles. Thank you.

[Chao]

I was never taught the vosotros form of verb conjugation when I took Spanish. All of my teachers said it is not necessary to know this.

It is my understanding the vosotros form is only used in certain regions of Spain. As a matter of fact, some of my Mexican-American friends here in Central Texas tell me that when a person uses this form, it sounds like that person is a snob.

[Lostagain]

Chao,
According to my Guatemalan friends, where vos is commonly used, vos is a third person singular personal pronoun like tu, while vosotros is plural. It is used among friends and associates and is a remnant of 16th Century colonial times. It is used with the third person familiar singular verb form.
Lostagain

MANCHACA:

***it is chao not ciao

***Mr. and Mrs. Chao will have chaitos or chaicos for children not chaocos

***vos and vosotros are two different pronouns

Hit the books!

[Chao]

Happy Jack and lostagain,

I dug up my old Spanish textbooks:

"Encuentros" by Emily Spinelli and Marta Rosso-O'Loughlin, copyright 1988, Holt, Rinehart, and Winston, Inc. This book covers Spanish at the freshman level in college.

"Nuevas Dimensiones", by Angela Labarca and James M. Hendrickson, copyright 1988 by Heinle & Heinle Publishers, Inc. This book covers Spanish at the sophomore level in college.

Both books list "vosotros" as a subject pronoun, second person, plural.

Both books list "os" (note no 'v') as direct and indirect object pronouns, second person, plural.

Neither book mentions vos.

I checked my University of Chicago Spanish Dictionary and lo and behold, there is a "vos"! Parts of Central America, western Venezuela, parts of Colombia, eastern Ecuador, Chile, western and northern Argentina, Uruguay, and southern Bolivia.

In other words, vos is used generally away from where the old Viceroyalties of Mexico and Lima used to be. In Chile, the distinction is one of class: vos is generally used in the lower economic levels.

Being a non-native speaker, I don't know all of the intricacies and idiosyncrasies of Spanish. And, I don't pretend to know, either.

I was never taught the vosotros form of addressing someone. I was taught the usted form.

If you happen to be a native speaker of Spanish, or have an advanced ability to speak it, more power to you.

Chao

[Lostagain]

Chao & Happy Jack,
Another intersting regional difference is the use of "mande Ud." or simply "mande." I am told it comes also from colonial times. When the peasants addressed the patron they would politely bow and say "mande Ud." Now it means "what?" in Mexico, where I learned most of the Spanish I know. I say it habitually here in Calif. and when I'm in Colombia I get kidded as being a Mexican ... until I start talking more and they realize I am nothing but a gringo. >