Buying or Renting in Cali Colombia?

(I had to keep this first post in order to not lose the thread after I transferred it here from the General Topic forum. I deleted the contents of the post, as they did not pertain to the topic. Tim)

Alright guys I will change the subject..

First of all congrats to Fred...damn..I'm jealous...I wished I could afford to join you.

So for those of you who are in the know how much do you think it would take to live there per month. I'm 33 a Systems Analyst here with a good income I also have a small real estate business on the side. I am hoping to retire in the next few years and move down to Cali or to San Jose.

The best I can figure to live like I want to live in Cali it would take me min. about 2K per month. I know it is possible to live there on a grand a month but not like I want to...
I ran across another American living down there last month and he told me that he spends at least 3 hrs in the casino playing video poker and loses on avg. 500 per month and still only spends 18 or 19 hundred.
I saw his apartment it wasn't bad.

Just a side note he also lived in San Jose and he move to Cali because he liked the women better (what a shocker). Actually his exact words were not only are the women in Cali better looking, I lived in SJ for 4 years and swear I didn't meet one women there that was not a whore. His words not mine, I am sure there are women there who are not whores.

When I asked him what was the worst thing about living in Cali he said that he had very few American friends there (unlike SJ) and that he couldn't get decent T.V.

Here's my opinion.

700 - 900k per month apartment
600k for food
200k taxi
200 medical/dental/laundry
200 misc.

I figure I would then need another 2M pesos to cover entertainment and flights back to the US.

I can't see how I could do it if I wasn't guarenteed 2K per month coming in free and clear.

To those of you who are going to move down to Cali or are thinking about doing so, THINK ABOUT PURCHASING A CONDO. Obviously, real estate transactions are riskier in Locombia than in the USA. You need a good lawyer, and some inside info. Talk to the security guard of a condo complex. Talk to the banks about problem real estate loans or pending foreclosures. I saw a nice somewhat upscale large 2 bedroom unit which I heard was going for about 23 mil or $10,000 US !! The owner had financial problems. Renting unfurnished nice apts is cheap 250 mil or so -- around $110 US. I'm talking about nice places in safe areas. Chippi Chappi is expensive. The same type of condo for $10K near Ave Sexta would sell for 4 or 5 times that in CC. If you're going to move to Cali, I'd rent for at least 6 months, then buy a condo. See whether you really like living there. For a lawyer, see whether Robert from LWC would have the time and expertise to handle it. I have heard good things about him handling legal work on immigration matters. He might refer you to an expert in the real estate end. Buena suerte en buscando por una casita. Kev

[Lostagain]

Kev is right, if you want to live there on a long term basis it is a good idea to buy a place. Depending on the area and whether you are able to get connected with bank repos or other good deals, you can get a pretty good price. There was an article last June or July in El Pais about barios which had high crime problems which you should look up in the archives to help direct you away from some areas.

I bought a place in the south end of Cali near Unicentro and now they are building a huge La 14 on the opposite side of where my apartment is, so there is lots within walking distance. Plan on paying administration (condo dues) in any decent apartment or condo complex. Having the security and peace of mind is worth the price. In fact my girlfriend would not even consider looking at a place which was not "gated." Maybe a new topic for this. Chao, Lost Again Fred

Ken Boone,

Is your gringo friend in Cali named Tom? I know him well. Tom told me the same thing he told you and I believed him BEFORE I boarded a jumbo jet and landed in San Jose, Costa Rica. I liked San Jose and no, Tom is wrong as there are plenty of non-whores there and the women are very nice and attractive like Colombianas, like Brazilianas. I think Tom had a bad experience with a Tica and maybe this is the reason he hates Costa Rica so much. Remember Ken, this is one person's opinion.

Reality and Lost Again,

I would never buy a condo, apartment or land in Colombia at this time. I seriously considered buying mass acreage property on the shoreline up a mountain in Lake Calima but after extensive research I decided no. It's just too risky in Colombia right now.

[Lostagain]

Ray, you're right about Lago Calima, if it is the place I am thinking of, it is too dangerous to go there for most everyone. With apartments the investment is not that much and it is unlikely that the government will decide to expropriate that kind of property from foreigners. You do need to be careful on the title search and make sure title is really clear. The system of recording property ownership is through notaries and is a little confusing. I had the help of a friend who is a lawyer there. He was involved with me in the entire transaction and it all went quite smoothly. But it is something where you can be burned so if you buy property there you have to be prepared to accept the risk. In the grand scheme of things, that risk is not much compared to other risks one takes living in Colombia. Chao, Lost Again Fred.

[Bill123]

Ken,

Whatever you do...don;t buy down there. I realize Fred tried it, but it is generally a bad idea to purchase property there. Purchasing property here vs. there are two totally different things. The economy here is built around the long term appreciation of real estate. In Colombia, the economy basically is shot....not exactly a market to own real property in.

Besides, why buy when you can rent for dirt cheap...and not have all the hassles of buying.

In Bogota, for instance, it is easy to find rents from 300 to 500 a month, including utilities. On my last trip I found one on the 22nd floor of a new building for $350 a month. With new furniture and a washer/dryer, phone, the works. It was an beautiful apartment...better than what I see here! And it would be crazy to buy with rents like that!

P.S. I hate to think what those casinos set the payout ratios on those video poker machines!!

[Lostagain]

Bill is certainly right, don't buy if you don't plan on staying indefinitely. I don't plan on moving back to the US so for me it made sense. There is inflation in the prices of real estate in Cali and, I presume, in other parts of Colombia, but it won't equal the appreciation you will find in the US. The economy is in serious trouble there and prices can be very unstable. That's why you can find some really good deals. For me I prefer the peace of mind that I don't have a house payment and the place is mine as long as I pay my taxes (which by the way are pretty high).

Renting ain't a sure deal either. My experience renting a place for my girlfriend at the begining of the year was a big factor in buying a place. We rented an apartment through the brother of the "owner," who was said to be a priest. As it turned out the brother was stealing the water and electricity (he took out the meters) and claimed we were supposed to pay him. When EMCALI came around and discovered the situation they said that my girlfriend could be prosecuted even though she didn't know what was going on. He pulled a similar stunt on the telephone by charging all his cell phone calls to our number and putting a block on the phone so it would only make local calls. We told him to put his phone bills in a dark place. Finally, we found out that his brother didn't have the right to rent the apartment in the first place as it was in forclosure (embargo) and the rent was really supposed to go to the prior owner. We were glad to get out of there when we did even though we lost 5 months of the rent. Also, be aware that when renting you may need a co-signer who owns property in Colombia. (No I won't co-sign for anyone.) This is how we got into this apt. in the first place. They agreed to waive the co-signer requirement if we paid the rent for the entire year. As the rent was only $110(US) per month, it wasn't a big loss to get out early.

I have a friend who owns an apartment in Argentina who also had some fun stuff happen. She couldn't figure out why her utility bills were so high when she was living in the US and the place was vacant. She went there to visit and discovered that one of her neighbors had tapped into her electricity for his apartment. Her brother, who was involved in the development and construction of the apartments, sold her the place. At one point the wall separating her apartment from an adjoining unit fell down. She found they didn't put any reinforcement in it as they were supposed to.

The moral: If you rent or buy, be very very careful. There is always someone willing to relieve a rich gringo of his money. (And from the point of view of many Colombians, all gringos are by definition rich.) If you rent, make sure you have a reliable landlord. If you buy, don't invest more than you are prepared to lose if deal goes bad or the building falls down. And for God's sake don't buy a place there as a hot real estate investment to get rich. As usual, I am Lost Again, Fred.

[Bill123]

Renting is just a whole lot easier and just go month by month.

Another problem with buying, even if the place appreciates, is that you may very well suffer from currency depreciation when you sell.