I Think I'll Build a house!

[Cap'n Jib]

House building in Panama is NOT for the faint of heart.

Just to give anyone who cares a little background, it doesn’t matter much what the contract states. At best, the contract is a starting point in the negotiation process. And please do not think that IF you have reached agreement on a specific topic, the decision will carry over into the next day, week, month…..year(?).

The language barrier is in many respects the least of the problems. If I were to try to identify the major problem, I would have to say it is a cultural one. Things WILL be done, if they get done at all, according to the culture here….NOT the way we gringos think it should be done.

I know of two gringos who have stopped construction (over three months), just after the footings when in, due to misunderstandings. Yep these gringos ‘thought’ they were in charge. Can you imagine?

A Chinese Panamian has spent just shy of $1,000,000 (the total contract price), only to find that it will take another half million to complete the house. The builder had excellent recommendations from his prior clients….like no real problems. What went wrong in this case? Too much work. Simply, things got ahead of the builder.

Another individual, a retired female attorney, was told that she could not select the colors for her interior walls…the contractor knew best. This woman was indeed savvy in that she has prior experience in building in Honduras, she paid twice as much for the house there due to theft of materials. She is represented by a Panamian attorney, and a good one at that, however, contractor knows best.

Most houses built here DO NOT have a list of materials NOR a specification as to construction techniques to be employed. Naturally there is no list of the standard inclusions. The idea here is to pick the three or four points that you will not budge on and then don’t budge. Of course they test you and that is only to be expected. Most individuals simply give in. Most contractors will ‘let’ you have about four items, after that they will tell you they are not interested

I have gone through three law firms. A good idea is to hire an attorney and then hire another to watch the first one. Unless there is a prior set of construction plans, they will be in Spanish, it is also a good idea to hire a second architect to review the plans of the first one. If one does not build in a development then an ‘independent’ construction supervisor to monitor the progress(?) is a good idea.

Now if all this seems excessive, then don’t do it….at your own risk.

Ah what about using a fellow Gringo to build. With the exception of one project I know, the problems appear to be even worse. Because we ‘expect’ things to work a certain way, a Gringo, challenged by honesty, will be able to take advantage. Not saying all mind you, just the ones I am familiar with.

In my all too brief experience here in watching new arrivals, the self perceived wealthy Gringo is perhaps the saddest to observe. They arrive with a quarter of a million to half a million and believe that they will command respect because of their perceived wealth. Haven’t seen it happen yet.

So how is our own house fairing. Quite well actually. I had to tell them to stop everything only three times. The first time, they though I was kidding. Went out and got additional property within a few weeks. Didn’t care how much was paid at that point, because the construction is all concrete and block. It can sit there for a year or ten. It will still hold its’ value.

We should be able to occupy the house only three months PAST the contract date (with completion penalties included).

[Clay]

Did any of those dip sticks have a model that you could point at and say
"I want that house on my lot"?
Or maybe one that had built in the barrio before?

[Cap'n Jib]

Yes, that is exactly what we did. We decided on an existing model because I anticipated problems in having our own design being built. We would point to the existing model, and they would STILL do it their way or a new way. Following plans or orders appears to be very difficult for them.

A Panamian friend told us he does not understand the culture either. The only time things change is when a major argument or fight occurs. This also happened on his house and he is an attorney here. One of the great advantages I do have is that I can walk at any point. We not only have a plan ‘B’ but also a plan ‘C & D’. However, we doubt that things will be much different with the other plans.

[Cap'n Jib]

I have given more thought to Clays’ comment. I have been ‘advising’ a couple of other individuals who are building at other sites. In trying to deal with their frustration, I summed it up as follows.

If you NEED to have ALL your American wants and desires met while building a home, STAY IN THE U.S.! This is not a big deal down here. Just go with the flow!

Captain, I thought this type of stuff only happened in the U.S. Namely, the "crooked contractor". In my experience with any type of homebuilding, home repair, plumbing, electrical, etc. you always end up with about at least 90% crooks. I always marvel at how an industry could have such an infiltration of crooked folks. However, my dealings with the few honest ones have been great. I believe the key here is don't give them any money whatsoever until the entire job is completed to your satisfaction. Not for "materials" or anything else NADA NADA. Let me give you a positive example. My house in Encino had no central ac. I hired a guy. He put the ducting, new a/c unit, heat unit, and wiring in less than a week. Within a week I had cold a/c. The trick was I didn't give him any money until the entire job was completed. After a few weeks something went wrong. He came out and found out it was just a loose screw. After that it worked perfectly for years until I sold the house. The key here is "no money" until completion. If they don't agree just smile and tell them there is no deal.

[El Capitan]

Originally Posted by Encinoman

After a few weeks something went wrong. He came out and found out it was just a loose screw.

...I could'nt resist Eman...you set yourself up for that one...but as one of the guys of contractor ilk, I have to say there are plenty out there waiting for the opportunity to do you like Marcellus Wallace...and it doesn't particularly matter what country you're in...

...But don't worry, the rubber ball mouth gag is yours free...to keep if you wish at no further obligation...when you contract for the job!!!

[Cap'n Jib]

Eman,

You have made some good points and I am glad things worked out for you. I do not know many qualified contractors, who would go without an advance for materials. I know I wouldn’t.

While I have not had the 90% bad guy experience myself, I did end up in the contracting business for a while. We had insured and were doing the construction disbursement on a small commercial project. The general failed to perform. My client asked me to take over. It was a good thing that I like challenges and happened to be bored at the time. When on as the general contractor to do another commercial and three houses.

Most contractors I have met are basically honest. IME the greatest difficulty they face is becoming over extended. Once extended, it is almost impossible to recover…the reason being not enough money. And if a contractor is challenged by math, it is VERY easy to become over extended.

The second difficulity is not enough or the wrong experience when bidding. The lack of knowledge problem shows up quickly and those with even the smallest construction experience can spot it quickly.

It is rampant here in Los Angeles. Some folks out there might think I have an isolated story. If you talk to almost any homeowner they have a contractor horror story. I think one of the worst was one written in the Los Angeles times. A guy was in college on a basketball scholarship and unfortunetely suffered a spinal injury. His mother got a grant so she could have the house remodeled for wheelchair access. A contractor came and took all the money. Never did any work. This stuff happens daily in Los Angeles. That's why I don't give them a penny until it is finished. If you give a contractor any amount of money at all. You will probably never see him again. The good guys (10% or less) realize this stuff happens every minute and realize they won't get any money until the job is completed. I had a contractor convert a storage area to a laundry room. You guessed it! No money until the job was completed. If you give a contractor money before the job is done. I would say you are a fool. And you know what they say about fools: "A fool and his money are easily parted."

[Clay]

Isn't Encino where Red Fox did that porno series?
He kept saying "Lisbeth I'm comin".
E-man, only after major disasters does the mainstream of contractors proceed with improvements without a deposit at acceptance of a proposal.
E-man sometimes I could swear that the story was true about how your momma dropped you on your head.

LOL. That's something. Clay have you ever contributed anything to this board? Better yet, Can any board member recall Clay contributing any useful information to this board?