The "B" Word

[Tinto]

Freedom. Excellence. Integrity. Honor. Commitment. Family. Community. These are the values that define the Gringos.com™ spirit.

Good values to aspire to indeed. With those goals in mind, I would like to have the freedom to bring up a subject matter that is not mentioned often on the forum; what sort of offense could get a person banned, either temporary or permanently. This post is a genuine inquiry regarding this subject. It is not intended to start any flame wars or arguments. My hope is that the owner and moderators will contribute and the forum members that care to participate in this thread will express themselves openly and without fear of any reprisals. I write this post knowing that by doing so may be the the grounds for my permanent ban. If that be the case then so be it but I'll explain below why I feel it is important to discuss this topic even though when I attempted to do so earlier in another thread it was dismissed and then locked down.

My point was apparently missed when I said earlier, "It is my hope that the GT Terms of Service will be followed when it comes to the rare disciplining of forum members and not influenced by personal feelings made by one of the moderators or forum owner. I think a stronger camaraderie will occur among the forum members if fair, reasonable and common sense TOS are adhered to."

In reading GT's Terms of Service banning is addressed but not in much detail. Five offenses are listed that will get a person's account terminated, i.e. banned. They are:

Defamation of Libel and/or Slander. (Libel and/or Slander is defined as written or spoken words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation). If you post any message about another living person that is a complete falsehood (lie), your account will be terminated effective immediately.

Spoofing. (Spoofing is defined as anyone who maliciously impersonates another living person online). If you are spoofing, your account will be terminated effective immediately.

Trolling. (Trolling is defined as anyone who attempts to start a prolonged flame war, a fierce argument with rude, personal insults). Known trolls from other bulletin boards will be banned effective immediately following any questionable incident.

Post-Whoring. (Post-Whoring is defined as anyone who creates too many posts of little or no content which fail to contribute to the topic at hand, or who creates multiple threads in rapid succession may not engage in such behavior to intentionally drive up their post count). If you engage in post whoredom, your account will be terminated effective immediately.

Spamming. (Spamming is defined as any and all of the following: advertisements for services or websites, excessive useless fluff messages, flooding, and the like). If you post a spam message you will be banned effective immediately.

Those sound reasonable and fair enough but what about other offenses, those unwritten rules that once crossed, will be cause for dismissal and why is this important to know or even discuss?

Let me share my perspective and you might see where I'm coming from. Gringotalk is not the first Latin interest forum I've posted on. I began by reading another forum years ago to obtain information for my maiden trip to Colombia. I found it very helpful reading trip reports and advice from those that went before me. The camaraderie among the posters was evident so with a little fear and trepidation I decided to go from being a lurker to being a poster. Once I returned from my south of the border trip I wrote about my experiences and found that the forum waters were nice. I enjoyed giving back and in so doing found a hobby that I never thought I would enjoy; writing. I began to feel part of an exclusive and fortunate group of men that dared (or were crazy enough) to travel to a foreign country in search of love and more options than were available back home.

That forum had a change of ownership a couple years down the road and I was very disappointed to see the new direction it was heading in. The previous owner was easy going however the new owner was anything but. He immediately tried to discourage certain topics and comments that were not to his liking and resorted to frequent editing, censoring and banning of many long time posters that crossed the line, his line. He apparently was very concerned about competing websites, so much so that he implemented a software program that would detect a URL of a competing website even if it was mentioned in a personal message. This rule was not previously mentioned to earn you a trip to the closest exit door.

When I learned about one prominent and well-respected poster getting banned for inviting one of his friends to another Latin based forum in a private message I voiced my objection publicly on the forum. That action marked me as one of the forum's "troublemakers" and it eventually led to my demise, or should I use their convenient, but not very accurate term of "opting out". Even though this forum had a very detailed four step warning for getting banned it was apparent that the new owner had no qualms in violated his own written rules and banned posters at whim. Two other forums were started as a direct result of this forum owner's leadership style or lack thereof. I looked elsewhere for a more welcoming forum to participate on and found it on Gringotalk and have called it "home" for the last five years.

Shortly after joining this forum I got an unexpected yet welcomed telephone call from the owner. I think he was checking to see if there was a person behind the screen name as well as to introduce himself. What a pleasant surprise that the owner would take the time to do that! It made me feel more a part of the team, family and community here. Such a contrast to the nit-picking and zealous attempts to toe the line under the new leadership on the other forum.

One other benefit of participating on forums such as Gringos are the friendships I've developed along the way. It is also nice to know that something you author may help others that are thinking "outside the box" in regards to traveling overseas whether looking for love or not even though I'll probably never meet or get to know most of the readers.

If you've read this far you now have an inkling as to why this concerns me and why I addressed the subject of banning here and in another thread. It was pointed out to me that the moderators don't care to discuss why another person(s) gets banned. I can understand and accept that even though they are no longer able to post on the forum to explain or defend their position. I was told to stay out of things that do not concern me and not to make posts that incite more problems on the board. That certainly was not my intent even though it smacks of sweeping things under the carpet. Even though a thread gets locked, that doesn't change my desire to speak out when I think that there may have been a better option than banishing a forum member. I've heard from both the moderators regarding the other two members getting banned and from the banned members and I consider it a shame when long term members are banned for something that appears to have not been violations of TOS. Sure, it is not my playground and I don't make or enforce the rules but that still doesn't stop me from addressing my concerns in a respectful yet public manner.

I'll accept that the moderators care not to discuss an issue that doesn't concern me but I can address this issue when it comes knocking on my door. I was banned twice recently, once for what I considered was a rather innocuous statement I made in a private message to another forum member. When I tried logging into Gringos I was met with a 15 ban notice saying something to the effect that I had threatened another forum member and that I had spread malicious lies about the leadership here, both of which were inaccurate and false. After calling and speaking to one of the moderators he reversed his decision and my ban was lifted as we spoke. I expressed then that I felt that it would have been better had I been contacted to discuss this situation and to question me about those rumors they heard before making any decision. The second time was after I made a recent post here. The following day I was welcomed with my second ban notice which I kept a copy of. It stated, "You have been banned for the following reason: Attempting to start a flame war with wise ass comments to board management. 60 day ban. NO EXCEPTION." I already mentioned that my comments could have been couched more constructively but trying to start a flame war? Not even close. The comment was made that I should be grateful for my 60 day ban being reduced to 25 days and to be mindful of the breaks I've received.

Some might think such a long winded post may be somewhat vindictive for the treatment I (and others) have received. That is far from the truth. I'm simply desiring to express my thoughts in a constructive and challenging manner to the leadership on GT to reconsider these apparent heavy handed decisions that from my viewpoint, are meted out rather quickly before all the facts are known. It is my desire that Gringotalk continue with the Freedom, Excellence, Integrity, Honor, Commitment, Family, and Community they define as their spirit and values and it be a place that one is proud to call a forum "home".

[Cap'n Jib]

Gringotalk was the first and only group I actively participated in until 2009. In January of 2009, I was asked to participate in an economic/financial blog and during this year have submitted essays and such to that forum. However, GT is my real love…..well actually one specific Latina comes first, but GT is definitely a first/second or would that be a second /first?

I owe a lot to Gringotalk. I doubt I would have ventured south with, dare I say the ‘confidence’, I had without the support and assistance provided by GT.

One of the greatest aspects of GT is the diverse opinions. Perhaps I cherish and respect this difference of opinions the most. No one has a lock on ‘the truth’….I sure as hell know that I don’t. What works for one gringo does not necessarily work for another. IMHO, everything should be done encourage various points of view and to question everything. This difference of opinion is what makes GT ALIVE.

The problem is a so called free-for-all can be often be more work for the Moderators. Questions like ¨Is this thread getting out of hand or is already out of hand?¨ will constantly be running through their minds. Whatever decision reached will be questioned and maybe even judged. This is a human trait and will or can not be changed.

My personal debt to Ray, Tonk, Lostagain and BigE in all likelihood can NEVER be repaid. NEVER! Somehow saying ¨Thanks Guys!¨ doesn’t do it.

I maybe one of the few who will NOT question your decisions or the authority to act as you think best. Collectively you showed considerable judgment and restraint in not going into a lengthily or specific explanation of the situation. Thanks for taking the high road.

I do have a problem with the manor of response to Tino´s request (I also do not understand the new rules or whatever). I care not about prior situations you may or may not have had with him. His questions (ignoring them), as well as the way he was addressed, was not respectful….no high road taken here.

If GT is to be respected and supported, it must treat EVERY member with respect also…no matter what the situation. Leadership...by example.

[LastLion]

I dont get it? What is the problem?

Obviously you dont want to piss off the moderator or the owner.. Sounds like that is what happened. I have had the smack down too, I have been told to stop saying things or provoking people and I have been told not post about certain crap and I did, End of story!

I have no idea what exactly transpired with these other folks, but obviously they crossed a line.

[JMitch1959]

Tinto,
After a great deal of analysis of your post I have come to the conclusion that one only need to "follow the money." i.e. Sort through all the b.s. and I suspect often it comes down to the fact that some people think they're special, and shouldn't have to cough up $25 to participate in this forum; especially in light of their unique contributions.

Of course this is true more or less, but I can certainly understand Ray not wanting to underwrite this hobby of his; and a mandatory fee seems reasonable to me.

I understand this is only a part of your question. I would suggest that if some people think they can be better moderators, etc. perhaps they should volunteer. I don't always agree with moderators, but I do appreciate their service.

JMitch aka The Instigator

[DennisLevy]

The $25 is irrelevant.

I might add that after we were publicly told that the subject was closed for discussion, obvioulsy it wasnt...because the board is still a free service for posters

To ban someone becase they are personally insulting or they make vicious personal attacks or they make racist comments or they appear to hate women or they are obvious in their efforts to instigate flame wars....OK, not a problem, I easily accept, abide by those rules and understand that.

But it is my opinion and only my opinion (and anyone is free to disagree with me) that perceived cyber personalities of both posters and moderators play some part in banning certain posters.

Have a good day everyone.

Dennis

[JMitch1959]

Hey Dennis,
Who's that in the picture?

I thought you were a fat, bald, old fart. You're ruining my cyber perception of you with that glamour shot.

[JMitch1959]

I propose we grandfather free membership to existing female members & Micky, and consider giving latinas a break on paying a membership fee.

[Bueller]

Originally Posted by JMitch1959

I propose we grandfather free membership to existing female members

Fabulous idea.

[Sailover]

Wouldn't that then be grandmother? And what is more fun than having your grandmother reading over your shoulder.

[JMitch1959]

Originally Posted by Sailover

Wouldn't that then be grandmother? And what is more fun than having your grandmother reading over your shoulder.

At your age you probably don't have to worry about that.

Nothing wrong with grandmothers; some of the old farts like dating age appropriate women don't they?