Former Rookie Needs Veteran Advice

Gentlemen -

I have reached a point in traveling that life is beginning to get tiresome and not having a home base or getting off the fence to lay down some roots in Latin America. Brazil is great, Panama is cool and easy and so is Costa Rica. The DR is OK, Peru is always there and Colombia- we all know what is there and the risks associated with it and the ease of closeness to the US over say Brazil.

I already have a lot of the intangibles for Colombia because of a former relationship, my extensive experience but the older we (men) get the harder it is to change. After looking for more than three years, I've found a small 1-BR Flat but a little worried about the intangibles of Rio and living in Brazil like the constant noise of a big city, beggers, street kids touching me for money, weird euro guys, loud italians and others ...And lastly; sex tourists. But I want to learn the language - this is vital! To learn spanish or portuguese - this is huge for any expat. I cannot stress this enough! It´s a make or break deal for any man attempting live the expat life and if you can´t speak or understand the native tongue then you are at risk of having serious issues and problems and you want to be independent and not rely on the all to common independant Facilitators as Mr. Vignola once posted about.

Bottom line: I would appreciate some advice about the seriousness, pros, cons and risks of living in Brazil or if I should KISS* with Colombia. I already have a Colombian resident visa and it's closer to the US with a lot less sex tourists, fewer Gringos in general, minimal street kids/beggers, scammers, etc that are associated with larger coastal cities in Brazil. But we all know that Brazil is great. A wonderful Beach. A great coastline for miles and miles and the fruits, food and women (I think) are a step up (but harder to know/not as approchable in some areas) from Colombia but the Real is strong against the Dollar and the Peso of the Latin countries always seems to remain stable and low which is good for us gringos. That stated, not sure if I should decide to dedicate one year of studying Portuguese full time at PUC-Rio- Rio' s main university and buying a Flat (I don´t like to rent/I´m an investor). The visa requirements are a bit of a hassle and no guarantees I'll get the one year stamp. I must go to Miami to the Brazilian Consulate and hopefully get the visa and it' s good for only one year.

My question is to those of you who know Brazil, with all its accolades and also the Latin countries of Colombia- what is your opinion about Brazil and if this is viable if you were in this situation?

*keep-it-super-simple

-Thanks!

[Bueller]

Ray, I'd be okay with Colombia, but something tells me you are a "Brazil" kind of guy. Maybe you should just consider other, less-touristy cities? I couldn't imagine hanging around in Rio. I think if you take the path of least resistance right now, you'll always sort of regret it, to judge from various comments that you have made about Brazil compared to Colombia. The language is more difficult, but to me it is well worth the effort to learn. I went through a love-hate relationship with it, which eventually turned into love. One of the greater pleasures that I have in life now is to be able to plug in a CD by Caetano Veloso or Marisa Monte and to be able to enjoy not only the music but the lyrics. Then there is the literature, such as by Machado de Assis, and the pleasure of simply conversing with people.

You still have a total of five months before you have to have that new visa in hand. Your current visa runs out in two months, but you can just go over to Foz do Iguaçu and cross into Argentina and back and that will make you good for another three months (whoops, I forgot that you have already spent some time in Brazil this year -- you get a total of 180 days). If you already have the paperwork lined up for your student visa, you can have a visa expediter in Florida get the visa for you, and you can indicate that your port of entry will be Foz do Iguaçu, if you don't want to have to fly back to the US to activate the visa. Once that visa expires, you can get three months and then three more months as a tourist.

Again, how about a different city?

[Micky10]

Ray -

I do not have any knowledge of anything, but as Bueller said, and I agree, that it seems to me that you do have a bit of a Brazil bent. And also agree with B, give it some more time if you can. It would be my first choice to check out seriouslly if not for the visa requirements for retirement visa. For me it wins JUST for the quantity and quallity of beach areas. Good luck with the choices.

Love - Micky

[El Capitan]

Good Morning Ray,

I'm with Bueller and Micky on this one. Even in your post, it was well evident that Brasil is on your mind. Are their other great countries to try - yes - but IMHO each of them is a bit of plane ride from MIA.

As Bueller opined, I think taking a look at some places a little less racey than Rio, may give you that happy medium you're looking for, albeit an additional plane ride if it's far enough. I think if you KISS, you'll be kicking yourself in the ass down the road for not trying it the way you intended to from the onset. Just do it. The real question is where, and how.

Where - Is there any other city that you've been to that would "do it" for you?

How - Brasil is big on external investment right at this point in history. Can you turn what you want to do, into something they'll bite on for a resident visa? There are lots of gringos living in Macae, that have been there for eons. Some inquisition might be oin order, as well as possible business opportunities. Might be worth a trip for a day or two...hell, it might even be fun.

I'll ponder it for a while, but in essence, Brasil is the only answer to your question. Verdade?

[El Capitan]

...actually Ray, maybe we should seek some input from SuperMary now that I think about it.

Mary...any ideas?

[Supermary]

First off, I don´t understand aaaaaaanything about visas & paperwork and what counts as investment and what doesn´t and etc... I also don't know Colombia, so I can't even begin to compare, but I'll just assume it's mostly not an option anymore given the input of the guys that posted above me. :P If that ain´t the case, someone else can help you compare...

Ray, I think B is pretty much on target with his opinion... Rio is good for visits, but it has a lot of added hassle to it that you already mentioned... the bums, the sex-tourist, the violence that is totally out of whack... Seeing as it doesn't seem like you need to be in a metropolitan area because of work, I'd suggest places like João Pessoa, Macaé, maaaaybe Natal, Maceió, itacaré and even Florianópolis, despite the colder weather...

As far as learning the language, I'd suggest you either tough it out another year in Rio and then move to some other coastal city, or look up other options for Portuguese courses. As far as coastal cities, my guess would be that Salvador probably offers language courses, and João Pessoa probably does too. I know they have an exchange program at least...

I have a question though, what type of life style do you intend to live and what are your preferences as to what sort of place you live in? I have no idea what exactly you do for a living, if you expect to own your own business, or just retire or whatever... Depending on your answers, that could change the suggestions...

[Kelley71]

I have never neen there but my Portuguese professor tells me that Curitiba is an extremely nice city to live in Brazil. He says the public polls there are heavily weighed upon in that city. He said car companies ask the residents their opinions on names of cars before released in Brazil. Much public research is done by manufacturing companies. Mary, maybe you can tell me if the Professor is full of it. I researched Portuguese immersion classes a few months ago. They are everywhere. I hope to take the national test in March, by then I will have finished the Berlitz school. If you PM me I will gice you some really good book listings that I have used that have helped tremendously. I am glad I learned Portuguese before Spanish because the few Spanish classes I have taken, the verb conjugations are SOOOOOO easy now and the articles are too.

I researched Fortaleza heavily. The real estate market is booming there if you can stand the heat! Close to the equator there. A lot of Euro tourists also. If I buy a house there(Brasil), I want to look south like Mary said Florianpolis, it is an awesome area (from pictures) my best friend is from Joinville. I do not think you would be flooded with resale competition like up North. But if you have some serious cash you can go to Angra dos Reis. An island for every day of the year!

Só meu dois centavos,

Boa sorte,

MK

[Bueller]

Ray, if you continue to rent, you won't be too entrenched in any one place. If you have your doubts about Rio (as you should), don't complicate things by buying.


Going to a university program will get you help with a student visa, plus you'll meet interesting people and have a structured program to follow. But as an alternative or as a supplement, buy and study books by Pasquale Cipro Neto, especially his Inculta e Bela series, available in any bookstore:

http://publifolha.folha.com.br/catalogo/autores/526/

The Inculta e Bela books are compilations of his newspaper columns about Portuguese usage, written for the average lay reader, so the books themselves can be read in bite-sized portions. I also liked his books Nossa Língua em Letra e Música, and O Dia-a-Dia da Nossa Língua.

Also, find articles on subjects you are really interested in, print them out, and read each one four or five times. I've found that reading pointless newspaper articles just for the sake of the language is really boring, but for French I've been printing out and rereading commentaries on artworks from the Louvre website. I can (and need to) read each article at least half dozen times, and each time the article becomes clearer and more insightful--but only because the subject matter is so interesting, as opposed to being the minutes of last Tuesday's water district board meeting.

Then, get out and talk to people a lot. Get your morning coffee at a different shop each day, your açaí somewhere else, etc.

And don't forget Caetano.

[Bueller]

When I moved to Brazil, I went straight to Curitiba because of the nice things I'd heard about it. From day one, in fact starting on the plane from Madrid, people started telling me I should live in Florianópolis instead, so I went there. Every time I passed through Curitiba over the next three years, I always felt glad I didn't live there. It's certainly got its good points, but it tends to be cold and cloudy...just like its inhabitants. No traffic jams, because of its excellent urban planning; but no beach, the people are not as warm and friendly as the rest of Brazil, and there aren't that many attractive women.

Gentlemen ...and ladies,

Great ideas.

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback.