Suggestions? Panama or Ecuador?

[Lahry]

Hello, I’m a USA citizen. My wife and I have passports. We are interested in either Panama or Ecuador. We are open to other suggestions as well.
I’m 66 yo, wife is 51. I take Lisinopril for high blood pressure. Wife has muscle relaxers and pain meds for disc problems in her back. She has her good days and bad days.
I’m on SSI, current income is $1350.00USD. We have scaled down our lives to almost nothing materially. We live, by choice, in a rescue mission in Arizona. I am the Chaplain here. More than our clothes, we would be taking our laptops and not much more. We are not “space” people. We just need a place to function, ie, sleep, bathe, and eat. We don’t own a TV, nor do we want one. We do require decent online availability, preferably WiFi. That is probably a must. A small 1 bedroom flat would work nicely, as long as it is near bus/train/taxi access. We like blending in with the locals.
We lived in Montego Bay, Jamaica for a time as missionaries. We lived in a small 2 bedroom flat right along side the locals. We really enjoyed it. We had children then, but not now. We got along real well, although medical services were not “all that”. Wife was pregnant at the time with our 3rd child. She came back to the states for the birth.
I love to snorkel, and I love to eat fish. So, I’d really like to be within a short bus ride to some clear water with reef. Wife is not much on eating fish. But most other common things are ok, beef, chicken, pork, and the like. We want to be in a tropical climate where it is comfortable year round and vegetables and fruits grow year round.
I am also a non-denominational minister of the Gospel. We would like to blend in with the locals and help where we can, but not take over per se. We understand that if you really build good relationships with the locals, even in tough times, you can get by. They will watch out for you like you were family in most cases.
We are not locked in to either of the above stated countries. So if you have any suggestions about other places, we are open to these as well. We are looking for a retirement country, long term, with a trip to the states for 3 weeks about twice a year. So we are not interested in anything across the oceans, please. Thanks for your help. We look forward to a grand time discovering all the new things before us.
We could be ready for departure by late fall of 2010.
Lahry and Debbie Sibley
Holbrook, Arizona lahry4u@yahoo.com

[HonkyTonk]

1st off, welcome to GT! Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different opinions. Panama is easy to adjust to and their currency is the dollar. I doubt it's the cheapest place to live though, same for Costa Rica. I'd give some consideration to Honduras. I've never been there, but it's an up and coming country for expats and I'd def. check it out.

"We had children then, but not now." Wow! Sorry to hear all your children have passed on to a better place

[Tim413]

I would think if you need to come back to the US a lot. Panama would be a good choice.

Tim

[Lahry]

Honky, Thanks. LOL, The children are still a kickin. They just all grew up, and it's just my wife and I. I had my eye on an island just off the coast of Honduras. Tough to find a rent there, but it's not too touristy.
Tim - Good point as well. I may be able to even get VA meds there in Panama. I like the sound of Ecuador, but it is a bit far.
I really want to be in a climate and area where we can live off the land if necessary, year round. We liked that about jamaica when we lived there. But not interested in returning there. I do like the latin americans. I do know a little spanish, but not conversational. Being in the culture all the time would be nice and my wife could keep me from feeling isolated until we get conversational. We will likely take some classes where available.
Panama. I like the looks of Bocas Del Toro, also Colon. I favor the Carribean side because I believe the water is much more clear, but I could be mistaken. Bouquete sounds cool, but a bit far from the sea.
I'm hoping by the fall of the year we can find a month long rent down there somewhere and fly down and visit. Nothing like the smell of salt water in the morning. Yes!
Thanks for your ideas. I really appreciate you taking the time to express them.

All His best,

Lahry

[HonkyTonk]

Bocas Del Toro si, Colon? Wow...I'd rather live in a sewer. It's cleaner and less dangerous. I really don't think you want to hang your hat there, but to each his own.

I've been to Boquete. Cooler but lots of traffic getting to David. Cap'n Jib is our resident expert on that area of Panama as he lives there. Great guy and he's more than willing to share the ups and downs. David is a smaller city but would have everything you'd need to live a comfortable life.

[Lahry]

Thanks Honky. I really appreciate it. How's the Pacific near David. I know where David is and it's not far to the ocean.

[Cap'n Jib]

Welcome!


As usual Tonk is correct.

When the board was down, I WAS savoring the idea of never uttering that nonsense again about Tonk. S-H-E-E-S-H!

We recently got our permanent residencies (ONLY waited 4 years) so I guess we need not look further. We did have a contingency plan should the permanent residency not be approved. We would live in Bogotá for a year or so and ‘lick our wounds’ so to speak

During that time we would make visits to Ecuador & Uruguay. Then if they were not suitable, Z-town (Zihuatanejo), Mexico would be the choice as I have been there a number of times before. It is a beautiful sleepy little town. The peace and quiet is only broken for about a month every year when the (I hesitate to use the word ‘sailors’) recover from their ordeals of competiting in the ‘Baha HaHa’ run. Cost…typical Mexico expat living among the locals. (see link)

http://pahoahi.tripod.com/mexico/zihua.htm

Ecuador appears to be friendly to Pensionados. Since asking the US to remove it’s military bases, I have been told that the friendliness toward Norte Amercanos has improved considerably (guess an occupying force is not what the Ecuadorians wanted). Although heading down a ‘pink’ or socialist road, the President of Ecuador recently verbally and publicly slapped down his hard line socialist Vice President for promoting too close a tie to Chavez. Cheaper to live than Panama.

Uruguay has many advantages. One of the main ones is the cash flow from Argentina to Uruguay as the wealthier & middle class try to protect what they have left from the government of Argentina. The funds are often used by Uruguay for small improvement projects. Punta del Este, Uruguay has always had a soft spot in my heart due to the spectacle of the Whitbread Round the World Yacht Race (now known as the Volvo Ocean Race). Been told that living there can be just as expensive or cheap as you like. (See link)

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=punta+del+este+uruguay&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=7qUsTPjLE4H7lwfWhsSYCg&sa=X&oi=im age_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDYQsAQwAw
Panama, for us anyway, really fits our needs the best. Close to Colombia, easy flights from Panama to the US, I also love the water and it is only an hour away. My wife (a mountain gal) would have a tough time adjusting to the heat on the ocean. She would of course move if I asked but don’t think it would be fair to her.

I could be wrong on this point but I do not see Boquete as being cool. True, it is cooler than David (which even I find oppressive in spite of my time spent on ‘the big pond’) but I can only recall two or three times where a jacket was necessary….and that was in the early morning hours. Cost of living about one half of the costs in the US.

Good beaches near David. Excellent ones an hour away from David on the road on the road to Panama City. If one lives ‘low on the hog’ as opposed to ‘high’, the cost of living should be about one third that of the US.

These are just thumbnail observations.


Need anything else just ask.

[Lahry]

Hey thanks so much, Cap'n. I really liked the looks of "Ztown" in Mexico. I will look into more info on this area when I get time.
Bouquette is looking more like "the place" all the time. The climate is a biggy with my wife. Having some expats around until we are acclamated would be nice also. We will not have a car, but do not mind public transportation. I really get into the "locals". I just like the "festive" culture. Year round fruits and veggies would not hurt the "mid-section" either.
So, we may see you there within the next 6 mos or so. I so appreciate your help, and that of Mr. Tonk. Keep in touch.

From Holbrook, Arizona,

Lahry

[rivardco]

Why expat fulltime? Maybe I am not quick on the up-take. But I find that when I am in Colombia, for example, I become acutely aware of the things I take for granted in the US. The opposite is true as well.

Most of the guys I know that are full time expats are not as happy as they thought, or they are struggling with finding the right balance. For that reason, I approach not one or the other, but a mixture of both worlds. For that reason, distance, direct flights, become a big plus for me.

I think I WOULD like BA, Argentina very very much. But, when you consider the travel time, and my objectives ... Medellin pops back to the top of the list.

[Cap'n Jib]

“Most of the guys I know that are full time expats are not as happy as they thought” – rivardco


How true!

And Yet……….

The difficulty of making a generalization is that it is often general enough as to make it useless. Perhaps what is needed here is an oxymoron if you will…a SPECIFIC generalization.

Making THE commitment

A number of gringos and ‘gringo-ettes’, when going to another country, make the logical error of keeping one foot firmly in their recently departed country. This has a number of possible disastrous consequences built into the equation.

No TOTAL commitment to the new culture. This will naturally result in the push-pull of attraction and rejection to the new environment. I often refer to it as a ‘half-assed’ commitment. While it can be fool hardy to burn bridges prematurely, I often liken it to the decision to enroll in a TOTAL emersion foreign language program with the stipulation that the class be taught in English. Duh!!!!

Expectations

Rivardco knows of what he speaks. Hold on to expectations, reasonable or otherwise, and it sets the stage for disappointments, how could it be otherwise. Preferences are ok. If it happens fine, if it doesn’t happen also. Expect nothing and chances are one will be impressed….no matter the outcome. Certainly worked in my case.

Possible solutions.

One, live in the location you have selected for one year…..no less. Then make a decision as to staying, moving on, or returning from whence you came.

Two, live at a level at least one notch LESS than which you are accustomed too. Two or three levels less would be better. This puts the mind into the framework of having made a conscious decision to live UNDER your current lifestyle. It was after all your choice. This will automatically level or balance out the possible dilemma of the new environment NOT living up to expectations as well as automatically put you in touch with the yearnings of those THINGS left behind.

Three, it is reasonable to assume that a new location was chosen because something was missing or wrong with the old life or location. Allow the new location the opportunity to give you what you professed to needing before making the move.

Fourth, learn the dang language! One does not have to become fluent or such. Enjoy making mistakes on the path of learning. If you are easily embarrassed by making mistakes or your ego will not allow you to not appear foolish, see a doctor and go on meds. The rewards from learning he language will far out way the effort put into the task. Thinking in another language gives one a perspective that can be extremely practical….you MAY actually understand your mate….but DON’T count on it!

Should the ego still be an issue, think payback. You can butcher THEIR language the same way they butcher yours. In fact, from an egocentric perspective, I bet you can do a better job of speaking their language.

FIFTH, go native or local. Try not to judge how something is done or not done as the case may be. There is a special beauty of enjoying a different way of living. By becoming part of whatever it is, our stress baggage and pseudo-superiority can be kept to a minimum. It is,what it is!

But it is not efficient! This is not the way we do things back home! Your point is what exactly? Most likely we want a simpler or more loving way of life and that is our reason for moving abroad in the first place. When the actual results do not conform to our perceived expectations, we enter a ‘crises mode’. All we want is to get back into our ‘comfort zone’ and often will perform the most ridiculous things to get there.

We all are closet Don Quixotes’ except for the lucky ones who have been outted. It’s a numerical windmill type of thing. On a personal note, I can choose do ‘battle’ with approximately 3 million inhabitants (windmills) in Panama and force them to change into my own image and likeness. Or not!

I can continue to be my hermit self and exist in my own august level of importance (to me anyway), or not.


However, as a practical matter, it is probably more efficient and effective for one ’bozo’ to change than 3 million people. H-m-m-m-m. Tough choice.


ps: Lahry and his wife certainly seem to have the right idea, at least from my point of view. I certainly have no concerns about the two of them.