The Little I Know….

[Cap'n Jib]

In my occasional visits to Colombia, I have been in the position to discuss some of the more unsavory events that go on, with a number of individuals, who had ‘first hand” or “second hand” experience. Also I had access to a family member who worked for a Human Rights NGO) but would NOT discuss ANY specific event, however would gently set me back on the right track when I might stray in my analysis.

Then there comes the Mrs. We had of course discussed ‘events’ in Colombia and she was always willing to assist me in understanding the situation….as she understood it….apparently to a point.

Add that to the books, articles and whatnot I ran across, thought I had a pretty good over view. I knew NOTHING! It is at this point I must show the maximum respect to one individual on the board….Lostagain. Now I also have a small reason to not be specific in certain areas. Knowledge is a *****!

This started o a trip to a local shop for a service. We had been there a number of times before and always found the owner a beautiful and open individual. The Mrs. and owner got past the pleasantries and found that they both came from Colombia. We gave the guy a ride (we do this with all locals if we have the chance) and he told us his story.

His entire family was executed by paramilitaries except for one uncle who was not there at the time. Our traveling companion was out of the country at the time also. When he came back he saw pictures of the atrocity, because some of these groups like to keep a visual record of their efforts. These are distributed to neighboring villages for dissemination. A softening-up exercise if you will.

When I heard the village name I was indeed uncomfortable. I had read two very different reports of events there and here was a third. Our companion’s information came from his friends in neighboring villages. Gruesome!

If I understand correctly, all ‘evidence’ that the village existed was erased. Our companion broke down at this point. He has not been able to tell his story to many people, for fear of retribution (he was told that he would definitely be killed). He also didn’t trust many people in Panama because they just wouldn’t understand. We dropped him off.

The Point of the Story….

The Mrs. and I had about an hour trip to go and she filled me in on many things which I asked about before but she glossed over. She didn’t lie but she also didn’t volunteer information either. She may love me BUT it takes a lot of time to develop trust in certain areas and it was time to open the door ….just a crack. Upon reflection, some of my travels outside Bogota, were nothing more than a child whistling while walking past a cemetery.

She is proud of Colombia and yet ashamed of it. She has experienced being an undesirable with both the Costa Rican and Panamian governments. She is a normal woman that likes healthy male attention but is wary of Panamian men (Colombian prostitute stereotype). She knows the world equates Colombia with drugs. This is for starters.

In our posts we have tried our best to “understand’, what we believe to be innocence, inconsistencies and at times total irrationality. What needs to be taken into account here is after a hundred years or so of war, this will have an effect on people, culture and their outlook on life.

What I am suggesting is we develop the understanding that we will never understand the mechanisms they have developed to cope with their lives. Denial is perhaps the biggest problem we will encounter. Transference, misdirection, blockage, etc. are others. We can only guess what goes on in their minds due to their experiences…..oh and yes, they are women also...might make things a bit more difficult.

[El Capitan]

Good Evening Jib! Nice job. I have to equate this with something that most of us may have had personal experience(s) with -

How many generations did it take for families to forget about World War II, and the "crimes" that many suffered?

How many years after Pinochet left office did the families "forget" about their disappeared loved ones, and the legacy left behind?

Just a few thoughts for this Monday evening. I am afraid however, that the "legacy" that Colombia will have to overcome, will take a long time to achieve.

My best to you, and of course Mrs. Jib...and the Jib-let.

[Micky10]

Cn'J -

One of the things that is utterly amazing to me about the latin culture in general; the resilience of the people. I do not have much to say since I really do not know ****, but the "common" folk catch all the flack from ALL of the power seekers. Yet these people retain so much hope and love of life that I am in total awe. It is NOT about the women, it IS about the culture. Thank you for the post CnJ, tits as usual.

Love - Micky

[Clay]

Panama is a stopping off place, the farc live there, the auc live there.
Always be prudent about what you say to other people.
world war 2 lasted 4 years, this war is almost 50 years old and has affected colombias citizens for thier entire lives, don't feel strange if they hide some of their feelings.

[Clay]

http://www.amnestyusa.org/By_Country...3&n2=30&n3=885

[Cap'n Jib]

“Yet these people (Latinos) retain so much hope and love of life that I am in total awe.” – Micky

Right back at you, Micky. I am also in awe. They have so much we can learn from and embrace.


“Panama is a stopping off place, the farc live there, the auc live there.” – Clay

Clay, as usual as some great insights on this matter. From my understanding I would say that some FARC, AUC, and Narco Traficanties, vacation here or come for R & R.

Again the following comment has been sanitized a bit. Was introduced to a man who does the Darien thing for Panama. I have known and been friends with a few of our own special forces types, this man would have fit in with our very best. One month on station and one month off. They arrive at their out post in Darien, usually at night, and are gone the next morning... not to return to base until their rotation at the end of the month. This guy exhibited the 1,000 yard stare….meaning he looked right through you as though you were dead.

On a more humorous (?) note the President of the Panamian Supreme Court has recommended herself to the International Human Rights Tribunal at Hague. A local news report thought this was probably a good idea as she has a perfect record. Voted against EVERY human rights case that has come before her bench. Especially interesting in that Panama is a signatory to the U.N Human Rights Articles.

[Lostagain]

Cap'n J., flattery will get you everywhere, at least with me.

In all seriousness, you have added a great deal of insight to this board and what I have contributed only serves to supplement your thought provoking posts. I hope some day we will have the pleasure of meeting in person.

It is one of the mysteries of the people of Central and South America; how they can survive such torment and pain at times and yet be such wonderful welcoming and loving people. It is truly amazing.

L.A.

[Ciza29]

It seems simple. When you have no expectations you are thankful for even the smallest of things and family and friends become more important. When you come from the land of plenty all you can do is want more. Americans consume and think that is living. Colombians are just happy they have one more day to be with their family. They don't expect much so having little isn't depressing but a blessing. If you have lived in hell it isn't unreasonable to hope that tomorrow could be better. Life is just too easy here in the states, others before us made great sacrifices so that we never would have to go through what they went through. Sometimes I wish we had to earn more instead of just wanting more.

[Cap'n Jib]

A look at politics.

While I haven’t been at this game all that long, I like to think I have learned one very important thing. The labels we use to describe parts of the political spectrum have little if any meaning in Latin America. Our attempt to “force” a label on any group often shows our lack of knowledge of the country and culture in question. That goes for the U.S. also.

To see how this is a vain attempt, just take a look at our own country. At one time being a conservative meant preserving our natural resources at any costs (Teddy Roosevelt and the National Park system), not so with today’s bunch. The liberals/Democrats believed in firm budgets and pay as you go (Blue Dog” Democrats), today they are tax and spend. So labels, IMO, are nothing more than an ‘arbitrary’ abstraction which only holds value during a very brief period of time in history. Maybe accurate for today BUT tomorrow?

The Mrs., if I was to TRY describing her, is middle of the road as far a political orientation goes. Educated and a former college teacher, I would have expected a more ‘left of center’. Not in the areas we have discussed. A firm believer in working for what you get. So my attempt at trying to put a label on her seems futile. She has read most of the classics and understands how things MIGHT have worked in other countries. But when she looks at her country of Colombia, she realizes it is many years from achieving those lofty goals.

Now the extended family is something else. They range from far left of center to far right of center. Occupations from Human Rights worker to Former Colonel in the National Police. Resembling a political range from “save all of gods children” to “kill them all and let god do the sorting”. This gets me to the next level of difficulty. How can one expect a people who have basically been at war for over 100 years, to have any opinions that are not shaped by war, death and destruction?

They love Uribe because of the relative calm they are experiencing. They dislike Uribe because like most politicians he got his power base from a very unsavory group of individuals. When the oligarchy believes that it is their natural right to be superior to others, when the oligarchy (3% of the population) owns 73% of land out side of the major cities in Colombia, when the oligarchy can and does form their own private armies, and when larger countries [U.S.] enforce a class distinction by primarily negotiating agreements only with the oligarchy, what real hope does anyone else have? Whereas the Church once professed “liberation theology”, it now knows where it’s future lies and that is with the existing power structure. They have their ‘brand’ of conservatism or status quo…..we got ours.

And I haven’t even discussed the “drug problem” which reaches into almost every institution in Colombia. I can not think of an occupation that pays more than one in the drug trade. A value system gone amuck.

And when the Druggies and Oligarchy share a “joint venture” to develop the spoils, our labels appear very weak indeed.

But I said that I would try and try I shall to use a label. Most of the countries have a socialist leaning and why shouldn’t they. Capitalism has not really done much, if anything, for the majority of Latin America’s people. Their collective baggage of having been exploited by the Europeans and I, hesitate to say, the U.S., may not be overcome by our ‘superior understanding of other peoples problems’ and interference in their affairs. And to be fair, socialism to them, as I understand it, is an extension of the collective family they prize. Not quite the Soviet or Chinese socialism that we often use to label them with.

[Cap'n Jib]

I know something...I know something!

"RTTNews) - US dollar falls to near 2-month low of 501.85 versus Chilean Peso"

Is it possible for us to go directly to a status of a 4th world country and therefore skip being a 3rd world one?